I am having problems in Alcoholics Anonymous because I am a deist. And advice?
Usually folks put themselves in a few categories when it comes to faith in God. Either they are believers, non-believers (possibly atheists under this category), or don’t know and don’t care (possibly agnostics may fit in this category). But in my case, I do believe that there is a God who created the universe BUT this God cannot and will not intervene in any manner in our daily affairs. Almost like a puppet master who pulls no strings. I still believe in praying to acknowledge that there is a God, but I don’t expect or demand this God to do anything for me. I realize that extremely bad things can happen at any given time for no apparent reason (like having a plane crash into a building you work in and it gets so hot and smoky inside that your only alternative is to jump to your death because nobody, including God, can or will save you) and the same can go for good things (like falling in love with someone). In AA I see a lot of folks around me praying to a higher power and asking this God to take over their lives because they are powerless over alcohol and they need someone to take the wheel and drive. But I find this to be futile. Can you see how a deist would have a conflict here? Because he doesn’t fit in any of the neatly organized categories. Have you ever heard of this type of thing?
Some folks seem to understand what I am getting at here and some do not. I am a deist. So even if I did believe in a higher power of ANY sort, I still must acknowledge that this higher power can and will do absolutely nothing for me. As a deist, I do not admit that I am powerless. And that comes in conflict with the very first step.
So, in other words, I still believe that I have a problem with alcohol, but no higher power (in any form) will relieve me of my alcoholism no matter how many times I ask it to. But I wouldn’t ask it to anyways because I am a deist.
To Troy: I do not believe I am unique because I am a deist. I know that there are many deists out there just like me. But the Big Book does not speak of them. It speaks to agnostics and atheists, but not to deists.
This is why I hate AA. It’s a damn "gotcha!" hole they pull you into and introduce you to "’God" when you’re down and suffering.
Most addictions are overcome by themselves. Drugs, alcohol….. all conquered by themselves. Don’t let this "you are powerless" bullshit get to you. It’s all religious and total nonsense. You are the most powerful of them all. No one can knock out addiction like yourself. Fuck these other outlets, they lie.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Unless you can humble yourself and admit you are not in control, you will always find an excuse to keep drinking.
You have to work this out for yourself.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
There is an AA for non-Christians. i’ll star this question and go try to find a link.
EDIT: Here is is. It is called RR (Rational Recovery) Good luck buddy.
http://www.rational.org/
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August 23rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
This is why AA shouldn’t be mandatory.
The only thing I can recommend is to have the ‘higher power’ be yourself.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I suggest you call out to God and ask Him for help. You may find out your no longer a deist
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August 23rd, 2009 at 2:48 pm
have another beer
I have a problem with alcohol too, I cant drink enough without being sick !
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August 23rd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
I go to AA too, and I have heard several people say that when they first started going they had a hard time with that part of it. How long have you been going? I say just give it some time, and don’t give up on it. It is a really good program that has helped a lot of people.
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Christian
August 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I have wondered the same thing. Pregnancy cured my alcoholism, thank God. I wanted a healthy baby more than a drink.
Anyway, I can see how you would have a problem with the "god deliver me" nonsense.
Take from it what you can use and discard the rest.
*APPLAUDS Jeff S. for a really useful answer*
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August 23rd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
no but you have my sympathies, I have been right where you are. there are also non religious groups as well, you may fair better in one of those.
This may be totally unorthodox, but watch this and see what comes from it. It is pretty specific to the amount of religion in AA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjRzvbnaFk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYyrQrRKNBU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCXye9Fkgh0&feature=related
It’s the Penn & Teller BS about AA and honestly I found it really eye opening, and they do list a tonne of resources that are not religious through it.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
This is why I hate AA. It’s a damn "gotcha!" hole they pull you into and introduce you to "’God" when you’re down and suffering.
Most addictions are overcome by themselves. Drugs, alcohol….. all conquered by themselves. Don’t let this "you are powerless" bullshit get to you. It’s all religious and total nonsense. You are the most powerful of them all. No one can knock out addiction like yourself. Fuck these other outlets, they lie.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Yeah i can see where the conflict is arising alright.
What it comes down to is simply admitting that you do not have control over alcohol. There are plenty of atheists who don’t even believe in God yet make AA work for them.
Your higher power can be within YOURSELF even, it doesn’t have to be God or a god at all.
It can be your own higher power within yourself that you have not yet utilized to take control over your life and drinking.
AA says that you define whatever your higher power is.
Good luck man. I’ve lost a few friends to alcohol, as in dead. Hope it doesn’t get that far for you.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 5:49 pm
From what I have seen – those who pray for someone else (even God) to take over their lives and save them from themselves are destined to fail. I think a God would expect us to at least move our feet –
If you believe in a God that created the universe – doesn’t that include you? Whether you believe that He placed you here, or whether you believe He created a universe that He then left to it’s own course of action – one which He would of course be aware of – then either way, there is a little bit of ‘Him’ in ‘you’. Kind of like the tibetans believe (Honor the divine within) couldn’t you use that creative force to your advantage?
My cuz went thru AA as an atheist – he used the whole ‘divine within’ theory to his advantage to get through the 12 step stuff and is recovering well.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Well, REALLY, the "higher power" is what a Freudian might call your "superego", in other words, that part of your mind that has been instilled with an understanding of ethics, social cooperation, and a willingness to engage in deferred gratification and self-control. You can strengthen this part of your mind by an act of will. So go for it, and good luck.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Some professionals even call into doubt the notion that you need to recognize that you’re helpless in order to overcome alcoholism. Some are able to overcome alcoholism without it. Just try researching other alternatives.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 7:03 pm
RR won’t work
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August 23rd, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I received my foundation from AA…and I will always be eternally grateful for it.
I just answered a question that related to why God could Not intervene in our daily affairs.
I don’t really know where I would classify my beliefs…but I too have like~minded thinking such as yourself.
I believe that God is trying to awaken us to all the potential that we have within ourselves, because once you know of it, have faith in it…we are released from the fears, anxieties, and the insecurities that once had us running to the bottle for a reprieve.
YOU MUST find your Truth, and be able to incorporate it with your program…that’s what I did.
For example, when they read, ‘How It Works’…and they say about the disease is "cunning, baffling, and powerful"…well when they read that I equate "the disease" to mean my ego.
I am beginning to ramble, and I am not finding it completely possible to convey what I am trying to say with full understanding…but, please feel free to e~mail me whenever.
"Where’s there is a will there is a way."
Peace!
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Also played the role of an alcoholic and an addict.
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Jesus Christ would like nothing better than to help you with your problem. We pray to Jesus Christ because he is mightier than any problem. He is the higher power that is above everything. Develop a relationship with him and he will prove himself to you. I was a chronic drinker for over thirty years. I met Jesus Christ and I have been sober for over nine years with no withdrawals and no urges. He is the way, the truth, and the life!
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August 23rd, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Here is something you can do
A- accept you have a problem and you can solve it
B- when you feel weak talk to friends relatives etc
C- be honest with yourself, If you feel the urge to drink note it and move on with your life
D- don’t go to places that ask you to be defeatist about the problem and give up your responsibility in the matter!
Good luck
But you never said you have a drinking problem just that this is a problem for you within the AA structure? I hope you don’t have a problem and if you do please take my advice it worked for me
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(((((((Metta)))))))
August 23rd, 2009 at 8:50 pm
I believe the AA program says in God " as we understand him " .. Doesn’t it ? Not as someone else understands him . I think that’s in the 12 steps .
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August 23rd, 2009 at 9:24 pm
What is really going on with you is that you’re suffering from what’s called "terminal uniqueness".
Trust me…you’re no different than anyone else.
You’re just another alcoholic – nothing more – nothing less.
Stop analyzing. Just keep going to the meetings and listen. Take away what works for you at the time and reject the rest.
These people who are praying to their higher power have evolved.
You just aren’t there yet.
Oh…and, yes, I have heard of this type of thing.
It was me.
.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 9:29 pm
I believe AA can be helpful even without the religious part, and many non-believers continue to use it despite their beliefs. Your health and sobriety is more important than a few generic religious slogans, none of which is enforced and can be ignored. Just skip over that part and save your life.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 10:00 pm
People run into this all the time. What do you think it is that makes you make the choice you are trying not to make? You, Ok what can heal you? How about higher self…you know how one day you act stupid or tired or mood, What if that is your lower self & the other part is your higher self. I think people have a name for it HS but I am not sure. You are not at all alone…when you let go like people who meditate have something happen & this self comes through. So you just have to get the right word for it..Don’t give up or feel alone. People will have respect for you cause they are their to be humble. I see you have a lot of answers & I would think if others don’t have an answer they will look for you & come back & edit so you’ll get it.EDIT: there are other avenues but I think you are better off being with AA & finding the other stuff on the side. Do some searchs for alcolism without AA or whatever words you can think of, there are different authors. There are people who get fulfilled by their group others actually take the substance & can replace it with spirit but spirit doesn’t have to be what you are thinking it is. It could be psychology & learning how to not feel as bad when angry for example…you might want to try things like EFT look it up at youtube.com & on the Gary Craig site…this is powerful & I can get people who can help you with that but if you e-mail me you have to put the title of your question or I will be clueless.
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August 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 pm
I can understand how you would struggle in AA, because the program was built on the foundation that belief in a higher power with the ability and desire to help you does exist. Without that higher power, you are on your own, and you are still trying to overcome your addictions on your own strength. Even the term "higher power" was used because some people struggled with a negative view of God from growing up. But really, AA was based on allow God to help us with something we couldn’t help ourselves with. If what you struggle with is why an involved, loving God could allow bad things to happen, it could be part of your unclear view of God. Where God works is in the hearts, minds, and lives of those who have given their lives to him to work in. The things he can do with that are amazing; from personal experience I can tell you God does involve himself when we want him to and sometimes when we don’t. But a harder thing to accept is that God’s agenda isn’t always what we think it should be. His thoughs are higher than ours, he can see farther than we can. So in order to let him have his way in us, to help us, it requires that we trust him completely. Also keep in mind that God gave each person free will; he doesn’t come rushing in to stop someone from doing something bad, because he has allowed each person to choose to follow him or not. A lot of the horrible things in this world are things that people do or that people have created – not that God has caused. He never did promise to make the world perfect for us, or to sheild us from pain, but he did make a lot of promises about things he will do with and for those who love him. It’s a wonderful comfort and hope.
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